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Episode 111: We Agnostics North Bay

This episode contains a conversation with Lena R. from the We Agnostics Group in North Bay, Ontario. Lena discusses her expertise of working together with her District to approve a request to add the “secular” class for her group on the Area meeting directory. After contemplating Lena’s arguments, the District voted unanimously to approve the group’s request. That is an uplifting story about one group’s involvement with their local AA group and Common Service.

Transcript

00:00 John S: That is episode 111 of AA Past Perception, the Podcast.

[music]

00:13 John S: At the moment we’ll meet Lena R from the We Agnostics Group in North Bay, Ontario. Lena’s group lately gained the unanimous approval from her District to add the secular category by her meeting listing on the Area web site. It’s an fascinating story and I feel it’s one worthy of preserving for history. So without further ado, Lena R from We Agnostics Group, North Bay, Ontario.

00:48 John S: How are you doing, Lena?

00:49 Lena R: Oh, I’m fabulous, thank you, how are you?

00:51 John S: I’m doing great. I feel you’ve gotten an fascinating and helpful story about the way you and your group labored together with your District and your Space to beat some obstacles that you simply have been initially dealing with with having the secular designation listed in your meeting directory and I assumed it might be nice to preserve this story for the sake of history, but in addition to help others who is perhaps dealing with comparable conditions. So would you like to talk about that at the moment?

01:13 Lena R: Oh, definitely.

01:14 John S: Let’s start by speaking about you. Can you tell me slightly bit about your self and about your first AA meeting and what was happening in your life on the time?

01:23 Lena R: Positive, positive, yeah, properly, so I began… Principally, my drawback with alcohol and medicines started in Toronto and issues have been really going off the rails for me, however I all the time knew that I was not even considering AA because of the God stuff, nevertheless it simply so occurred that one time I used to be having that conversation with someone they usually had heard of Secular AA in Toronto and as quickly as I heard that my mindset modified from like, “Oh, I guess I’ll just keep going down the rabbit hole of drinking to, okay, maybe there’s some hope for me here,” so I searched it up online and in Toronto on the time, this is about perhaps 4 or five years in the past, there was a very healthy number of secular meetings there, there was about I feel six or seven every week, so it took me a while to get to my first one however ultimately I did.

02:19 Lena R: I went to the Tuesday night time group at St. Clair Avenue and for sure my first meeting was a bit of an emotional mess, I feel it is for lots of us, however I keep in mind leaving the assembly with my 24-hour chip in my hand and simply feeling like, “Oh, there’s a chance for me here.” I was really grasping on to one thing. Unfortunately it wasn’t all uphill from there, I still had a couple extra relapses to undergo, and it’s really onerous to… It was onerous for me to make it in Toronto, as a result of I didn’t have household. All of the individuals I was staying with individuals I was… Individuals I used to be with had toxic relationships with, for instance, and it was actually arduous to make ends meet, so I simply had a lot to worry about.

03:06 Lena R: So, after struggling for in all probability a few yr there in Toronto going to conferences, learning about the program but nonetheless struggling, I made a decision to move to North Bay as a result of that’s where my mother is, so I had the opportunity to not work for some time, simply go to rehab and simply give attention to myself. So there’s a whole lot of privilege in that sense for me in getting sober, however anyway, so.

03:32 John S: I feel that’s fascinating that you would not go to AA if it weren’t for a secular meeting.

03:39 Lena R: Sure, completely. Oh, I’m simply… I’m actually hard-headed and I do know what I consider. I’ve been an atheist all my life, so I used to be so glad that was out there to me.

03:51 John S: Properly, I discover the same factor in our group. I might say now, I’d say over half of the those that go to meetings at our group haven’t even been to a meeting with prayers and so forth. They wouldn’t even go to AA if they didn’t have this opportunity, so that’s type of fascinating.

04:09 Lena R: Yeah, absolutely.

04:11 John S: How did your group We Agnostics get started in North Bay? Did you play an element in that or was it already going whenever you arrived in North Bay?

04:18 Lena R: Yeah, so once I got here again to North Bay, unfortunately there was solely traditional conferences, in order that was my first rodeo with the normal meetings, as a result of I needed to go, I needed to seek out my individuals in North Bay and so I used to be in all probability attending those for a few yr, however in fact I did encounter a lot of problems with that. The worst for me was continuously being pulled aside after the meeting, somebody like, “Oh, can I talk to you?” They usually’d inform me about God and be like, “I was an atheist when I came into the program too,” but ultimately I had pretty much had enough. I additionally had another adverse experiences in this system and I just thought it was time for me to hold the message as I had acquired it. So beginning it up, simply the logistics of getting a gathering area and all that stuff was principally completed simply by me.

05:10 Lena R: Discovering a location was fascinating because clearly we don’t need to have it in a church and in North Bay your choices are more limited than in Toronto, I might say. We truly had one United Church that was prepared to host us however thankfully we have been truly capable of get to, I assume, enter an agreement or no matter with an artwork gallery. So we started meeting, yeah, at the White Water gallery totally free, they’re very generous. And yeah, and so I started that assembly, I take into consideration two years ago and fortunately in a short time we picked up a few key gamers who do service for the group and yeah, so now we have now a cheerful little group two years later.

05:54 John S: That’s great and at your group you read a secular model of the steps like they do in Toronto?

06:02 Lena R: Sure, exactly.

06:03 John S: Are they steps that your group created for themselves or is it that you simply adapted the Toronto steps?

06:09 Lena R: We acquired them off of… I feel, I can by no means keep in mind the identify of the web site but I feel the website is AA Beyond Perception, until I’m simply channeling your podcast right now, yeah.

06:19 John S: In all probability obtained it from AA Agnostica. They’ve a… We hyperlink to them from AA Beyond Perception, yeah.

06:26 Lena R: Right, yeah, so I simply took the steps right off of there, and I’m pretty positive that’s the identical one that they use on the Tuesday night time group in Toronto.

06:32 John S: So I assume once you did that, did you’ve any… Whenever you began your group and also you have been utilizing these various steps, did you have got any push back at all from the normal AA individuals, the District, the Area?

06:44 Lena R: I imply, individuals undoubtedly weren’t thrilled about our existence. [chuckle] However it was principally at first, extra of just a passive-aggressive factor, as a result of they couldn’t stop us from forming the group. The actual controversy began coming along once we began asking for things. [chuckle] Like once we first asked to be listed on the meeting cards. We didn’t have much of a dialogue about it at the time, however there was very suspicious delays in getting us listed on on the meeting playing cards. That they had printed two new batches of meeting playing cards. They’d be like, “Oh, sorry, we forgot.” [chuckle] However anyway, that was still just about nice, nevertheless it wasn’t till lately once I emailed the Area web site and requested them if they might record us with a secular category on their website, they’ve classes for an LGBTQ meeting and stuff like that. So I assumed it was more than applicable. But then they have been like, “Oh, well, we’re going to have to talk about that at the Area meeting.” And it turned this entire thing, because I sent that request on Might seventh of 2018. So there was a variety of delays with it. Then they stated District would have to achieve more info and stuff like that.

08:04 Lena R: And finally, what ended up occurring a few months ago was then they started questioning our use of the steps, they got here in to our enterprise assembly, apparently to info gather about why we might ever need this category and on the similar time, they started saying like, “Well, you know, how did that human rights complaint go in Toronto? We need more information, we don’t really know if you can use alternative steps.” So we undoubtedly interpreted that nearly like a menace, when you would have stored quiet we might have let have your steps, but that’s what we obtained for being rabble-rousers.

08:37 John S: And your Space is it’s not the same Space as Toronto’s in, is that proper?

08:45 Lena R: Yes, yeah.

08:46 John S: as a result of I was wondering… So that you have been in all probability the one secular group in your Area?

08:53 Lena R: Yeah, so we’re in Space 84, which encompasses North Bay, Sudbury and surrounding Area. And, yeah, so far as I do know, this is the primary time that it has come up at that degree.

09:03 John S: Okay, you realize, that’s really fascinating. This is something that I haven’t truly broached with our Area or District, and even our inter-group, all of them listing conferences right here. At one time we asked our central workplace if they might put an agnostic atheist at the time, a designation for our group they usually stated, “Oh, this isn’t a good time, but why don’t you come back and ask us later?” And it looks like there’s never really been a good time, and we haven’t actually been pushing it that tough. I’ve not but asked our Area to try this, but considered one of our conferences known as the Secular AA speaker assembly, they usually listing it that approach, so I don’t assume they have an issue with the word secular. But what sort of obstacles have been you given whenever you have been asking for that designation they usually weren’t wanting to try this?

09:53 Lena R: I’d love to get into this because, yeah, that they had loads of arguments that I simply thought have been so foolish. Among them, they have been suggesting that folks won’t understand the phrase “secular,” which for me is totally irrelevant because it doesn’t change the significance of the word. And because the secular AA group turns into no more widespread however more recognized and exists extra, increasingly more individuals are going to know the word, and naturally, any person who’s an agnostic or atheist is extra more likely to know the phrase secular, or they will Google it, or we’ve dictionaries. [laughter] There’s options.

10:31 John S: Yeah.

10:31 Lena R: And one other thing, too, is that they had… This one guy came to our meeting and he was like, “Have you heard of the Washingtonians?” And I hadn’t and I was actually annoyed as a result of he type of used it as a chance to make me appear to be I didn’t know sufficient about AA. Anyway, I began wanting into it, and the Washingtonians, they advocated for the abolition of slavery and prohibition, alongside their work with alcoholism. And as far as I perceive, I feel that they did nice work as properly, however to match this example to the Washingtonians and to say that we’re going to be doomed is to me utterly ridiculous.

11:10 John S: Yeah.

11:11 Lena R: After which another factor that came up… Properly, there’s two more. The very first thing is that they have been concerned that using this category can be divisive. And I simply stored hammering house the point that this isn’t what makes AA divisive, conventional AA is already divisive and that’s why these secular groups hold popping up. And the final argument was that folks might guess we have been secular, based mostly on the identify, which I feel is completely unfair as a result of until you’re accustomed to the Massive Guide… We as We Agnostics simply to tie in to the Huge E-book and because I feel it’s like a standard secular AA identify, I assume, however, you already know, until you’re conversant in the Massive Guide, you’re not going to know. We have one other group in our Area referred to as Came To Consider, and I used to assume perhaps that was a secular group. How do we all know this distinction? And the onus shouldn’t be on us and each group that follows to make it obvious and there’s like two more titles…

12:09 John S: That’s proper. That’s right, we shouldn’t actually have to try this. And the We Agnostics identify doesn’t necessarily imply it’s secular as a result of there was one guy who came to our group but he thought it was only a group that was excited concerning the chapter, We Agnostics. [laughter] And then I truly was at the Florida State Convention as soon as they usually had a seminar or whatever, a meeting referred to as We Agnostics, and I assumed, “Oh, this is really interesting. This is going to be a secular meeting.” And I went there, and no, it was all concerning the chapter We Agnostics and how great it was. [chuckle]

12:45 Lena R: Oh, no.

[laughter]

12:47 John S: It doesn’t essentially… The identify, however I feel that in all probability when teams started call themselves We Agnostics it was type of a code phrase to let individuals realize it was a non-religious meeting. What I find humorous concerning the word secular and what I feel that folks would object to is that it might suggest that their conferences are usually not secular but, you realize, that never appears to hassle them. It’s like they admit, “Yeah, we’re not, we’re not secular at all.”

13:14 Lena R: Yeah, absolutely. Nicely, even in the human rights grievance in Toronto, how the Higher Toronto Space Intergroup did primarily try to argue that they have been a spiritual group, so there’s clearly parts of that even if some AAs need to attempt to deny it.

13:30 John S: So you probably did this that each the District degree and the Area degree?

13:34 Lena R: Oh, so principally, this is technically still occurring on the District degree, they usually’re going to deliver it to Space. However to me, I contemplate it just about a achieved deal, because in any case this happened, I needed to make a presentation to District, and I decided I used to be simply going to be… I’m going to cease making an attempt to bop around the challenge right here, I’m going to instantly say, “Hey, here’s all the things that you’re doing that are wrong, here’s what it feels like bullying to us, and if you really support our existence as a group, you would support this modest motion.” So I did that and thankfully, the 2 people who have been initially sent to our group to type of… I assume like get in the ring with us and current counter arguments truly modified their minds.

14:23 Lena R: And the thing that was most exceptional is that there’s one man particularly who was in the service construction, and I feel individuals have respect for him and part of it’s like, dare I say, white male privilege as nicely, but he rotated and he stated, “You know, I’ve thought about it, I was totally wrong. I’m sorry, and we should support this. Yes.”

14:45 John S: Wow.

14:47 Lena R: After which the whole room flipped. So then, we determined to vote on a motion, however the District was going to help our request on the Area degree, so everyone voted yes on that, apart from one one that abstained.

15:02 John S: Oh, wow.

15:03 Lena R: And yeah… And in addition, someone in the room put up their hand final minute and was like, “Do you also want to be… Have a secular category on the District meeting card,” which wasn’t even something we had asked for. So that handed as nicely, however I really feel pretty assured that once they deliver this to the subsequent Area assembly they usually’re all in help of it, I really feel like they’re going to move it.

15:24 John S: I guess so. Now, do you attend Area assemblies yourself?

15:29 Lena R: I haven’t yet. I’m considering I should perhaps go to the subsequent one, but…

15:32 John S: Yeah.

15:33 Lena R: Feels like a real bore. [chuckle]

15:35 John S: It sort of is. [chuckle] To a certain extent it is, it’s like… I sort of jokingly say it’s sort of like being at conflict because it’s like they all the time describe warfare as being lengthy durations of boredom damaged up with brief durations of pleasure or action or no matter. That’s sort of what it’s like since you’ll spend like all day long in some boring committees speaking about trivia and so forth, but then abruptly, there’s one thing that’s really thrilling that happens like getting your designation on the media record or whatever. [chuckle]

16:09 Lena R: Yeah. Yeah, completely. And I undoubtedly assume that they could have a bit extra participation just to witness the drama of our secular group.

16:17 John S: Right, proper. And it is truly sort of… I assume what I like about it… I’m completely bored by all the committee conferences, for positive, however I do sort of like the little conversations I’ve with individuals between the meetings and so forth, and you do… You have got that chance to sort of educate individuals about what your meeting’s about and so forth, and for me, I don’t attend regular conferences so it’s my solely publicity to the considering that is occurring on the market with individuals from conventional teams, as a result of I’ll be talking to them about our literature, what I think about it, they usually get like… They will’t consider I simply stated that, one thing like that. [chuckle] It’s like…

16:58 Lena R: Yeah.

17:00 John S: And it helps me understand that… Actually why we do need our groups because… If I didn’t have the opportunity to talk about my restoration with different individuals like me, and I had to by some means both fit in with, or go towards the grain on a regular basis, I simply couldn’t do it.

17:21 Lena R: Completely. And it’s so funny to see it like how weirdly revolutionary it is just to face up and be like, “I’m an atheist and I’m sober.” It’s like the whole room… A chill goes over the room. [chuckle]

17:32 John S: I know. It is sort of funny. because… I assume that folks… They purchase into the e-book, they assume, “Okay… ” as a result of everyone talks up the Massive Guide so much. It’s not like a horrible e-book, but I feel that the best way that folks put a lot speak into it as if it’s all, you already know, we all need to comply with it 100%. And I assume if they do this, they take a look at the chapter with the agnostics they usually assume assume that clearly an atheist or an agnostic, even the 12 and 12, we now have to vary if we’re going to be sober, and we truly proved them flawed, that’s not the case.

18:06 Lena R: Yeah. And that’s an enormous drawback for me when it comes to my very own… I have my very own inner struggles in terms of accepting the beliefs of different individuals, as a result of for those who consider something and it helps you stay sober and it’s not hurting anybody, nice. But I feel in a method, believing in Christianity or issues like that may go hand in hand with seeing the Huge E-book as in a means being from the mouth of God in a sense like God spoke by way of Invoice W, and then we don’t have the opportunity to query the issues that they stated within the unique text.

18:43 Lena R: To me, the concept they didn’t get anything flawed on the primary go spherical is ridiculous, but unfortunately, we still need to battle inside the framework of what Bill W stated and what Dr. Bob stated, and thank heavens, there’s this quote from the Basic Service Convention, the third one, the place Bill W stated one thing about how numerous teams that use alternate steps are nonetheless groups because otherwise, we might simply should convince people who what they wrote was not gospel, and it’s just… To me, it’s silly and it’s unfair.

19:12 John S: Yeah. I read that within the letter that you simply wrote. I feel you wrote it on your District.

19:17 Lena R: Sure.

19:18 John S: If you have been making an attempt to persuade them to go forward and settle for this idea, and also you mentioned that quote from Invoice W. And I assumed that was really a well-written letter, and I assumed your arguments have been introduced actually intelligently, and in a method that it might be really troublesome for someone to say no, because you did inform the truth, I imply, Bill W and even Dr. Bob, they weren’t as strict concerning the Massive Guide even as the individuals are at this time. And a lot of people type of overlook that they even wrote in that ebook, that we only know slightly bit, we’re going to know extra afterward. And other people sort of overlook that they usually are likely to, for whatever purpose, assume that it needs to be just this manner because it was in that guide, nevertheless it doesn’t.

20:09 Lena R: Yeah, I keep in mind reading in the e-book referred to as, Don’t Tell, I feel that’s revealed by Roger C.

20:18 John S: That’s right.

20:18 Lena R: Don’t quote me on that, okay. But anyway, someone stated in that e-book to say that conventional AA is the one factor that works is saying that as a result of penicillin was the primary effective antibiotic it’s the only efficient antibiotic, which is so silly, and I wish that we might simply open up our horizons. I try to maintain hammering the purpose house about our main function to assist the alcoholic that still suffers as a result of finally, individuals don’t get drunk as a result of there’s a secular meeting listed on their meeting card, it simply doesn’t occur.

20:49 John S: Nicely, there are different groups that have had problems like this, and some even more critical, I know there’s a gaggle in Illinois, the Many Paths group, where their District wouldn’t record them on their assembly directory, as a result of they have been… Because their group was additionally listed on the secular AA website assembly directory, yeah, they’re nonetheless making an attempt to work that out. And then the Free Thinkers group in Denver, the Denver Central Office gained’t listing their conferences because they only don’t like them, they stated that they don’t need a newcomer’s first impression of AA to be the Free Thinkers group. Yeah.

21:31 Lena R: Oh, my gosh, all I can say on that’s, thank heavens that that work has been accomplished in Toronto, as a result of without that, we might all nonetheless just be scrounging in the dead of night, however I feel we will all reference that. And I don’t know if anybody’s tried to do that, but I might assume when you simply emailed New York AA World Providers immediately and stated, “Hey, we’re having a problem just like the people in Toronto had. Can you tell our Area that they need to list us?” I feel like there’s an opportunity that may work, I don’t know, I haven’t tried it.

22:05 John S: I feel it might, I feel it might more now after the lawsuit in Toronto, because earlier than that, the position of the Common Service Workplace was principally, they weren’t going to intervene in an area central workplace’s choice, as a result of that central office isn’t actually part of the overall service structure, and that each one that the Basic Service Office does is share their experience or whatever, but I feel now due to that lawsuit, I feel that they might be extra more likely to say, “Oh, yeah, you should list them.” I imply, that’s our expertise for positive, is to listing those groups. In addition to that, the Basic Service Workplace is now listing secular AA as a particular worldwide contact, together with the worldwide conference of younger individuals in AA, gays and lesbians in AA and different particular interest groups. Which may help as properly, in order that if anybody really needs to see, are we a authentic special interest group, they will simply check it out.

23:01 Lena R: Yeah, that’s unbelievable. And I can only hope that, once we had this entire battle come up, in a method it was truly actually exciting for me. Prefer it was the opportunity we have been ready for as a result of that is, if we hadn’t had this battle about getting our category, we wouldn’t have been having these discussions and finally, now we’ve satisfied a room filled with people who we’re a real AA assembly and so yeah, in a means it’s good that each one these fights are occurring now because at the least we now have the whole lot on our aspect, we have now quotes from Bill W and we’ve got the human rights grievance and we’ve got just logic and empathy and simply so many causes to do this. So for me, perhaps it’s just because I take pleasure in being a mouthy activist, however I had a good time with this.

23:51 John S: And truly, it’s really good work that you simply’re doing too, because it’s going to assist lots of people. The variety of those that don’t consider in God is simply growing all the time, individuals once they go to a AA assembly they usually’re confronted with this entire concept that they have to vary their belief system, they might simply somewhat say no, thank you, so it’s good that you are letting individuals know that this assembly is secular. You’ll be able to see it right here. It’s like are you going to get that designation, and in addition it’s AA. So do you are feeling like your group and you’re part of AA identical to another group?

24:33 Lena R: Oh, that is the good query. I’ll say I undoubtedly didn’t feel that approach one iota, till we had this District meeting, where everyone rotated, I used to be so divorced from the humanity of the individuals in that room simply because it was such a continuing wrestle. Identical to… We’re always having to justify our own existence, and it received to the point where we had individuals from the service structure coming into our meeting, they usually’re allowed to be there, however they’re being disrespectful jerks, as a result of they’ll start making an attempt to persuade us about why they consider in God, and we all know why they’re there. So. However I imply, there’s really one thing to be stated for the truth that they reconsidered what they have been saying. They apologized to us and simply last week, I went to a standard assembly for the first time in many, many, many months and I felt fairly good about it, so I’m really glad this happened.

25:30 John S: Nicely, good, yeah, it’s like this stuff, there’s all the time a silver lining in this stuff and it’s a really nice story as a result of the individuals take heed to you they usually change their minds. And you then had a unanimous vote on the end they usually principally, they did the best factor. And I’m glad too that you simply and your group have had the expertise that you simply really feel such as you’ve type of reconciled and really feel such as you’re extra a part of AA now. Our group has not had something like this, and numerous the those that go to our group have never been to another AA assembly and would not go to another AA assembly, and I typically assume that they don’t actually really feel like they’re AA, they feel like they’re something separate from the rest of AA, and I wish that there, I want that I might perhaps, I want I might do a better job of explaining to them how this can be a particular interest group. We are AA, but I assume it’s just because everyone… Everyone thinks that to be in a AA meeting, you’ve obtained to have these steps. You’ve received to read this guide. And that’s just actually not true. That’s not true at all.

26:40 Lena R: Yeah, and I feel we do put a variety of… Not we. Traditional AA places a number of strain on atheists, agnostics and freethinkers to do their mental gymnastics around the wording and across the books and simply sort of accept that they do rely, however it’s virtually like all the evidence around you is to the contrary. Fortunately, there are secular AA groups and just individuals who assume in a different way, who hopefully the extra of them that there are, the extra our experiences are shared, like in the grapevine as nicely. Hopefully, it should all start feeling slightly bit more related.

27:13 John S: Yep, I’ve seen numerous change over simply the last 4 or five years with to begin with the Grapevine Edition that came out where that they had the stories from atheists and agnostics. And then you definitely had the publication of the ebook for atheists and agnostics. After which the God Phrase pamphlet. That and now secular AA getting listed as a world contact for AA World Providers. So, that’s some huge stuff. That’s numerous change in simply the last four or five years.

27:44 Lena R: Oh, it’s lovely.

27:45 John S: Yeah, and previous to that, I’ve been in this system for a long time. And I spent actually many years, not likely as a believer however just making an attempt to slot in with what everyone was saying. And I received to the place I couldn’t do it anymore. Especially when my… Oh, am I atheist? I just really came to simply accept I was an atheist and I felt very snug with it. And I was very snug with a secular interpretation of this system and my recovery, I felt like that’s what I was doing all alongside anyway. So the extra that I accepted my own atheism, the harder it was. And really, I couldn’t any longer, I couldn’t simply fake to be anything, you recognize?

28:26 Lena R: Oh, absolutely. I truly wrote a letter to the Grapevine a few years in the past and again then, I was still calling myself an agnostic they usually just revealed it. And it’s type of humorous to see but finally I know deep down in my heart that me saying… And don’t get me fallacious, being agnostic is completely legitimate in and of itself.

28:46 John S: Positive.

28:46 Lena R: But for me, I knew it was simply my means of compromising with AA to attempt to mould myself into their program and finally absolutely coming into my id as an atheist has actually strengthened my sobriety and simply my quality of life.

29:00 John S: So inform me concerning the letter to the Grapevine.

29:02 Lena R: Oh, so I wrote it proper after they revealed the atheists and agnostics members of their concern of Grapevine. And principally, I simply advised them how thankful I was that they posted that and that I ordered 12 copies of it, which I did. [chuckle] I don’t really know what prompted them to publish it this month, but I’m glad that they did. And it was slightly good timing because it happened right after this entire District debacle and other people should cope with the fact that I’m an actual member. [chuckle]

29:33 John S: So, it’s in this month’s Grapevine?

29:36 Lena R: Yeah, the April concern. Yeah.

29:37 John S: Oh, cool. I’ll need to verify that out. Properly, that’s neat.

29:40 Lena R: Yeah, it is pretty neat. I’m excited about my new fame.

[chuckle]

29:44 John S: Nicely, thank you, Lena. This actually has been a nice story. And I recognize you taking the time to share it with us. Do you’ve another ideas that you simply need to share earlier than we…

29:56 Lena R: No, I just needed to say thanks so much for having this podcast. I’ve been bingeing it this entire final week [chuckle] and it’s been so helpful to me. I adore it so much.

30:04 John S: Nicely, thank you. Thanks quite a bit. I was for a long time, I was doing these each single week. And it looks like for the previous few months I’ve not been very consistent and I’m going to attempt to get back into it because I do take pleasure in it. I identical to these conversations. To me, this is like one of the best meeting that I have of the week. So anyway, thank you for listening to these. I recognize that.

[music]

30:24 Lena R: Oh, in fact. In fact. Thank you so much.

30:26 John S: Bye-bye. Take care.

30:29 Lena R: Okay. Bye.

[music]

30:35 John S: And that concludes one other episode of AA Beyond Perception. Thanks everyone for listening. I recognize your help. We’ll be back again real quickly with one other great podcast. Until then, you all take care. Be nicely, we’ll speak again real quickly.

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